Showing posts with label AWD. Show all posts
Showing posts with label AWD. Show all posts

Wednesday, January 19, 2011

Winter Tires versus All-Season Tires, The Great Dilemma

(Part 1)

Almost every cars stock tires are junk. Sure, if you spend enough on a car it probably comes with acceptable all-season tires, but if you spend enough on a car you probably should be getting more than "acceptable" traction and handling from your cars most important equipment. Suffice to say, whether you spend $18,000, $30,000 or $80,000 your cars cheapest OEM equipment is probably the tires.

When I got my Suzuki SX4 AWD in the spring of 2008, I ran the stock tires till the winter of 08/09 which was enough time to put on 18,000 miles over 9 months. The Bridgestone Turanza EL400 weren't great, but they weren't entirely unsafe. Honestly, they were probably a little better or a little worse than 90% of cars under $40,000 OEM treads. As a matter of fact, these are standard on tons of cars such as the Mazda 3, Hyundais, and Toyotas. However, with all the warm wet or cold snowless winters we were having I figured I might be able to get away with a set of higher end all-season tires for the first year with the AWD system in an effort to save a few bucks while also putting better (safer) 3 season tires on my car. So the goal was to put new tires on between November and December and get the most out of the 1st years tread. I expected to run these only 1 year as my winter tire, then get dedicated winter tires the next winter.

In this video, you can see how average the Turanza EL400s handle ice vs. a Blizzak level snow and ice tire 


One thing to keep in mind is AWD or 4WD in theory are great. Without going into detail on the differences (and no, they aren't the same, they work completely differently), FWD/AWD/4WD all still require good tires to move the car. Bad tires on the best AWD system are much worse then really good snow and ice tires on the average front wheel drive (FWD) car. I can't tell you how many times I safely passed Subaru's and Jeeps driving down a snow covered Northway or languished behind them on one lane roads, while I was using top of the line snow tires on my front wheel drive (FWD) Ford Focus, and I'd guess they were using stock tires.

We had very few real snow falls in 08/09 and a very warm winter. When it did snow it was usually a warm slushy snow that was ideal for the Avid TRZ's which clear slush extremely well. Then we had a very cold and dry winter in 09/10 that saw very little snow till the early spring when the arctic high that was camped out over us all winter left. To my surprise, because of the conditions, I actually got 2 winters out of my Yokohama Avid TRZ's without really having any complaints. As a matter of fact, the first winter they were on par with a snow tire except on icy conditions. Even last winter I had very little trouble during rare and often unspectacular snowfalls. One note on the Avid TRZ's, they are a hybrid tire. They are built with "Three Ride Zones" which go from outside to inside on the tread. One of the zones is a winter tread compound. So, while this wasn't a dedicated snow tire, it was significantly better than 99% of the three season tires on the market on snow and ice.


The AVID TRZ features a silica-enhanced all-season tread compound that remains more pliable at lower temperatures to increase cold weather traction. The compound is molded into an asymmetric tread design featuring Three Ride Zones (TRZ). The outside zone features large blocks and continuous ribs to focus dry road cornering grip, while the center zone features circumferential grooves to concentrate on water evacuation and the inner zone features lateral grooves and sipes to emphasize wintertime traction. The tire's internal structure includes twin steel belts reinforced by spirally wrapped nylon, along with a carcass that sandwiches high-density sidewall filler between polyester cord plies to blend comfortable ride qualities with predictable handling. -via Tirerack.com




I gauge snow handling 2 ways. First, my subjective feel for the car with said tires on it. Does it break loose in low speed turns, does it struggle to gain traction of flat roads at a stop light, does it lock up the ABS on routine stops, does it struggle up moderate inclines. Secondly, how often does that ESP/traction control light on the dash activate. With the Avid TRZ's the first winter it rarely lit up at all, the second winter was quite similar.

For the past 6 weeks we've had occasional light snowfalls, the heaviest being about 10 inches, and each time I noticed my AWD Suzuki SX4 didn't have the sure footed handling I was used to. It was spinning coming out of driveways and worse it was drifting in slow speed turns over snow. Drifting is fun when you are doing it on purpose and can regain control, but even in low speed turns the car would break free pretty quickly and be tough to bring back around. The rear end breaking loose is the #1 cause of snow/ice related accidents, and it's the reason most reputable tire shops refuse to mount only front snow tires.


Snow and ice tires vs. all season on snow

My Avid TRZ's are clearly at the end of their life, with perhaps another 10,000 miles on summer roads, but they are done for the winter. Assuming I get 7-10k more, I'll have gotten 53,000 miles out of them. This is well below the 72k rating but it's also not bad considering 2 things. 1) I rotated them only at 10,000 mile intervals vs. the 7,500 recommended 2) I drove about 2,000 miles on dirt and gravel roads with them, sometimes aggressively. I also take mountain roads very aggressively (though mostly within the limits of the law) often taking hair pin turns at the limit of my vehicle. This meshed with what other SX4 drivers got in similar conditions, so I think the Avid TRZ's served their purpose.

In the past I've always used either Good Year Ultragrip Ice or Bridgstone Blizzak WS-60s for dedicated winter tires. The Blizzaks were actually a better tire, better on ice and snow, and cheaper but they were still close to $100 each at full price.

Not really wanting to spend $400 on a set of tires, I did a little research and the General Altimax Arctics came highly rated by end users. They also were ranked #1 in Tireracks test, and #2 overall by Consumer Reports (#1 when studded). The $67 per tire price didn't hurt either! Not really sure how General does it because a lot of users like the dry road handling of the Generals better than the Blizzaks. So one can only assume you are getting a much better tire for about 40% of the cost.

In the end it came down to trying to squeeze 4 seasons into another set of 3 season tires, probably an AT tire this time like the Yokohama Geolandar AT-S (for those with SX4's reading this, the 215/60/R16 will fit perfectly, though throw your speedo off by about 2% while raising the car .5in) or General Grabber AT2 (215/65/R16 just fits and adds 1.5 inches of ground clearance), or going with a dedicated winter tire. However,  the problem is even if the tread on a good 3 season tire is fine the first year or two for snow, it never handles ice like a dedicated winter tire. All Terrain tires are no better on ice than 3 season car tires because the compounds that make them stick to ice, also make them too soft for long term road use.  The Avid TRZ's were a rare exception, though only for half the life of the tire. Then there is the issue with road handling, AT tires just aren't best for road use, though they would be appreciated on rougher dirt roads or muddy spring roads that my car often sees in Vermont, NH, and occasionally the Adirondacks. Since I expect to have the SX4 for at least this winter plus next winter, and it's currently our main car, I figured this was a good time to get a dedicated tire. If the current winter weather pattern holds our snowiest months are in front of us. And if Murphy's Law proves true, putting these tires on my car will mean we don't see another snow flake this winter! So basically, I'm doing all of you snow haters a favor!

Stay tuned for the second part of this blog, where I give my initial impressions of the General Altimax Arctic M&S rated tire.

Wednesday, April 23, 2008

Sleeping Beauty Of Lake George



After getting squared away with the new car that killed a few weekends of potential outdoor adventure, I was ready for a hike this weekend.

Originally it was supposed to be beautiful Saturday and deteriorate Sunday. Thats ok, I can hike just fine in the rain but installing power outlets, and speakers just doesn't work in the rain. So after doing some mods to the new Adventure Mobile it was hike planning time.

With the weather forecast being wrong as usual, Sunday turned out to be another near perfect day. I didn't want to drive far or undertake a hard hike. So I had quite a few hikes in the Southern Adirondacks on the planning board.

Caney Bear hasn't been on a hike since the end of January when he got sick with kidney stones and a bladder infection. Which he promptly followed up with a bout of colitis (probably from stress following surgery) He is only about 6 weeks post surgery for the stone removal and only healthy for about 10 days. However, he is a Border Collie, and he is happiest when he is tired from activity.



Aimee Bear just awoke from a 6 month hibernation. During which time she slept on a bed that was not too hard, not to soft, but just right. Dreaming of room temperature days that were not too hot, not too cold, but just right.



I've never hiked Sleeping Beauty Mountain but I've always found the hiking around Lake George to be as scenic as anywhere in the entire Adirondack Forest Preserve. The thing I like about the Lake George area is that I never expect solitude, but if we find it it's a huge bonus.





The Sleeping Beauty trail head is a relatively short drive from home. It was also a great test for the Suzuki SX4 we just got. Usually 10 miles of dirt roads is something we dread. But the SX4 is perfectly at home doing 40mph down twisty loose gravel dirt roads. Throw in a few mud slicks, some ruts, and some tight elbow turns and you have the makings of a fun drive. Well a fun drive for me, not my passengers.

This time of the year is strange in that it's not very pretty but there also aren't any bugs, whom don't typically arrive till mid May. While the lack of leaves and brush creates a wide open forest, and uncluttered views, the forest no longer offers any protection from the sun. I've had my fair share of April sunburns over the years from late spring hikes. Sunday's hike was no different, 15 degrees warmer than forecast and no refuge from the sun.

Having checked the DEC website I knew we'd have to park at the Shelving Rock Road trail head as the Dacy Clearing road was closed because of mud. Usually it opens later in the year and cuts 1.6 miles off the hike.

The road to Dacy Clearing is a pleasant walk and only added about 30 minutes to the hike at a leisurely pace.



Along the way we passed quite a bit of stone work, perhaps from homesteads, and some of which was from the CCC of the 1930s such as the Bumps Pond horse trail.



Unfortunately, we could a switchback right below the summit of Sleeping Beauty and ended up bypassing the view points and going straight across the summit plateau without the views. By the time I realized we missed the summit we were just starting out descent towards Bumps Pond. Oh well, I wanted to see the pond anyway, so we kept going rather than backtrack through the abundant blow down that fills the trail between the summit and Bumps Pond.



I felt bad for myself, but worse for the girls that blindly followed us and also missed the summit.

Bumps Pond was a pleasant little high mountain pond. Not too large but big on scenery even this early in the year.



The hike out over the horse trail was fast and easy.



Overall it was 7.2 miles and 2700 ft gained and lost over 4 hours.





Blogged with the Flock Browser

Tuesday, April 15, 2008

The New Ride...



My new car, the Suzuki SX4 / Fiat Sedici (same car, Suzukis are made in Japan, Fiats in Hungary)


Probably the most full featured car for under $20,000. Actually about 18k fully loaded. Even includes a sophisticated stability system in addition to the AWD.

The problem with the SX4 is it's compact size and generally average fuel economy (30mpg highway, 20ish city) put it between classes. Is it a Honda Fit, Nissan Versa, Toyota Yaris, Mini Cooper competition, or is it Subaru Impreza/WRX, Toyota RAV4, Audi A30 competition.

However, if you want/need a full size SUV or a economy compact, or would just like AWD and lockable 4WD this car has it for $4000-10,000 less than a Subaru. It also gets better gas mileage than Subies. It's mild off road capable, unlike a Yaris or Fit or Cooper. And it splits the gas mileage between the classes.

Where it shines is handling. Almost no body roll. It will eat curvy mountain roads that are often found in the northeastern mountains for breakfast and crap them out as exhaust.

Key thing to remember about off road driving is it's not just
ground clearance but ramp angles and gearing. The SX4 lacks 4WD low but
in 1st gear the gearing is low enough to negotiate the roughest
improved logging roads and mud pits. The ramp angles are well designed and allow it to climb fairly steep and drop into fairly steep dropoffs.

It has class leading cargo space WITH the rear seats down. And if you remove a single rear seat you get 31cu ft of space plus room for 3. Since we rarely have more than a 2-3 people and a dog and lots of gear, this is perfect.

At highway speeds (75mph) the 4 speed auto pulls 3000rpm. The engine is most effecient at 3500rpm so it SHOULD get about 30mpg on road trips (or most of my driving, about 90%) around town it seems if you leave in in 3, rather than 3D it gets in the mid 20s. Not great but not bad

Rember though the transfer case adds a few hundred pounds and the 148 hp is best in class but it's got to move a lot more weight.

Of course my Focus, even with a 16 foot canoe or a cargo basket never got worse than 25mpg. And rarely got less than 27-28mpg per tank. Actually 2 mountain bikes typically did the worst for fuel economy, and you could feel them.

And finally, it's not a Corolla, or a Civic. Those are great cars, but they are tired, boring and just plain common. Handling is so-so, nothing that even remotely differentiates them from the pack, and they aren't cheap. Cost more than the SX4 and offer less.

So while a 2WD car like the Ford Focus has served me well for 6 years. I'm pretty happy to get something a bit more functional, without having to give up much in terms of economy and comfort.



Some video: